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Hi, everybody. Nice to see you jumping on the call.
Hi, Mr. Word.
Hi, Tracy. How are you?
sorry I was on mute I'm good how are you good I'm doing good
hey word hi Tracy how you doing I'm good how are you good I don't recognize you with a ball
hat on and glasses you you're like in uh your detective mode incognito you mean
yeah that was the word i got i i figured it out how are you where are you you in canada
yeah i'm in new brunswick canada where are you uh sedona are you in sedona oh you lucky you
oh yeah that's how things work
thank you
thank you
I was supposed to go there last year
twice and I didn't get to go because of
COVID
oh COVID
what
all right is it time
yeah it's it is
it's five o'clock and
well
I'm your host this evening for the
for the satsang
so as soon as they were like hey Lydia you're gonna do the satsang but no one else can join
you all know who my first call was call for some backup support that's nice to have
yeah definitely but here's the catch so my backup can only be here for
like half the call. So you want us to talk really fast? Is that what you want us to do?
No, like what, what I wanted to do is check in to see if everyone was kind of following along,
like where we are in the book, because I can kind of do like a little review,
talk to you guys about what versus we've covered what's, what's been going on.
And then you guys can ask questions or maybe if someone has, if, because my support team is,
it's going to leave halfway through. Um, maybe if someone has any burning questions that they
want to start with, Hey Benji, be careful. I see you driving. Um, if anyone has, you know,
like burning questions that we could do opposite, we could do like some questions and then see where,
where we are kind of in the book. Um, I don't know what you guys have, have in mind. I know
Tracy, Benji, Dulcy, Chrissy, you guys were all here yesterday. So that's awesome to see you guys
back so if you guys want to kind of maybe jump in and give your opinion do you want to review see
where we are first and then ask questions or do you guys did you already come with fire and you
already like are like hey I have my questions written down I have a couple questions I don't
know where everybody else is at I just for me what I find after experiencing is it been two classes
or three I don't know um there I'll read a question in the homework and I'll go through my notes and
I'll go through like reading what the reading is. And I find myself struggling for finding some of
the answers and having clarity. So I kind of had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask if
anybody else was on the same page as me, but whatever everybody else wants to do, I'm cool with too.
Okay. Benji just flipped the car or turned the phone around. One of the two.
Chrissy says that she'd be happy to hear some review maybe first.
Yeah.
Okay.
So maybe, I mean, how about we do this word?
How about I do like a little review?
You just like, you know, jump in wherever you want.
And then from there, we can see if the questions are clarified.
And then we can dive in.
Because if we do it the opposite way, it might be a little bit out of context.
Yeah, up to you.
you have me for 17 more minutes oh gosh okay here we go it's gonna be like a like what's it called
a horse race okay so here's here's what I've been um like doing first of all does everybody have a
book either like the actual physical book or do you have your ebook okay Angelica you don't have
your book have you asked for your code you did ask for your code and you you got your code you okay
you just okay you just asked for the code and you need it okay
understood everyone else on this call have either the ebook or the physical book
not in front of me do I need it in front of me you don't need it in front of you but it's it's
a good reference that we can that we can go to I'm just writing down here then Helika doesn't
have a book since we only have word for like 15 minutes at this point um could we ask a Sanskrit
question to him before he yeah go for it you want a Sanskrit he's there was one question where it
says what is the um Sanskrit word for being itself and I went through my notes and I went through
everything and I couldn't find that word anywhere and when I looked at the part under selfness
there's a whole bunch of words there but I didn't know if one of them was referring to just being
itself but I wasn't sure if it was also a word that might have been for emptiness or something
but I'm not sure if if word if you were in the teaching today or if you're aware of
what's the Sanskrit word for being itself I just I'm at a loss
um the main word geshe is referring to um with well a thing being itself that will there could
be two things i'm not sure exactly your question is and it broke up a little but um atma means
a thing that is itself or has a self or a self and then um asmita means um assigning an eye
I am this
to a thing.
So those are the two possibilities.
Did you hit mute? I can't hear you
all of a sudden.
I wrote down as Mita, I am this,
but I was just kind of guessing
because I wasn't sure of any reference
of being itself.
But the Atma, I think it was the reference
more to being like a god
or something or a greater.
No?
Atma can mean god.
Atma can mean
As in Mahatma, a great person
But here it doesn't mean either of those things
It refers to the self
That which cannot be divided anymore
Atma
That which cannot be broken up anymore
So here you gave us the picture of a temple
Which the same word root
TM in temple
Comes from the same Sanskrit root
Atma
And it means that which is divided
from the rest of the village a temple thank you very much the only other question i had was the
five um different negative emotions when patanjali is there anywhere where we can find the exact
sanskrit words that go for each one because i find each one there's so many um different words
like is there a way to know um like I think I got some of them right but is there a way to know like
what's the word for the third or the fourth is it raga dvisha and avid dvisha
the five the pancha klesha the five mental afflictions are avidya yeah I got it means
ignorance or misunderstanding. Asmita, I am-er, I am-ness. Raga, which means ignorant desire.
Devesha, which means ignorant disliking. And Abhinavesha, grasping or attachment. Abhi,
very attached thank you very grasped thank you Lydia you can do your review
well um thank you Tracy but exactly I feel like what I wanted to kind of go over was the
the five glaciers and then kind of how the flow how how Master Patanjali takes us because exactly
what you're saying like he lists the five negative emotions and then in the subsequent verses he
begins to talk about him. He begins to, he begins to give more ample definitions about what he said.
So, I mean, that was exactly kind of something that, that I was looking over today and saying,
okay, wait, he gave us the five definitions that Abidya, Asmita, Raga, Devesha, Abhinavesha. And
then he goes on to explain those in each, in each of the subsequent verses. So I was thinking
as part of our review, we could kind of go into that and say, look, we started here. And then it
starts to kind of parse out and get a little bit clearer in the following verses.
I see Paola jumped on. Hi, Paola. Alfonso, welcome.
Hello, everybody.
We were just discussing where everybody is, how everybody's feeling to see if
we wanted to do like a little bit of a review, if people had questions just to jump in.
It seemed like everyone kind of wanted to do a little bit of review, see where we are and then discuss.
So the other, I guess, what would you call it?
Full disclosure is I called in for backup help because YSI was like, hey, Lydia, you can do the homework review.
So my backup's only here for another like 10, 15 minutes.
So if you'd like where you can go, if you want to do the review, you can do it.
and then I can stay and we can talk about the different verses.
Did you want to do it like that?
No, he froze right when it's like his cue.
Either he's super concentrated art.
No, he froze.
Froze.
Let's see.
Hello, Wordy.
Hi.
So did you want to do the reviewer or do you want to talk about something real quick?
Yeah, just because I have to go.
And I think that would be my greatest benefit.
And then you can just go over all the details and answer all the questions as from class.
Oh, yeah, just bring on your questions.
I got it.
Bring it on.
So the core of this class revolved around the five khalishas, as Master Patanjali describes them.
And as per Tracy's question, there are Avidya, Asmita, Raga, Dvesha, and Abhinavyesha.
And this is a flow of a sequence of mental afflictions.
They're not in a random order.
And if you can get a handle on how they happen and why they happen, you can stop the flow.
And so what Holy Geshe Michael did in class is he compared this flow of five khalishas, five mental afflictions, five things that bother you, negative emotions, to what we call Maitreya's six, or a set of six steps that are, how are the cycle of suffering, the cycle of samsada,
the cycle of rebirth and the small cycles in your life of husbands yelling at you,
losing relationships, bosses yelling at you, your kids having problems and everything else happening.
Let's give him a second, see if he comes back.
Obstacoles.
Can everyone hear me right now?
Yeah, we can hear you now.
And we got up to bosses yelling at us.
Okay.
Zoom cutting out.
not having good Wi-Fi, not already being enlightened and having to do all this stuff in the first place, you know, all that stuff.
So all those problems, how they're generated and how they are perpetuated.
So that's what this verse is about.
And subsequent verses, as Lydia was saying, are more clearly defining each one of the mental afflictions within the five.
So you have more of understanding of what they are and how they work and how you can stop them.
Okay.
So in the next eight minutes, I'm going to do the five, the six, and how they refer to the two husbands in the kitchen.
Ready?
All right.
And then Lydia, and then after I drop that nuclear bomb, I'm going to close my Zoom and run away.
And Lydia is going to have to explain everything.
Oh, good.
I got it.
I got it.
I'm ready.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So.
Okay.
So once again, avidya, asmita, ragadvesha, abhinavesha, pancha, klesha.
Those are the five.
Pancha means five.
Klesha means negative emotion.
Okay, so this is how it happens.
When you are born or conceived, actually, we say in Buddhism, there's a different word for conceived and born.
There's different verbs.
So it's separate, right?
So when you're conceived in Buddhism and since you're in the womb, you have a vidya.
People hear me?
Am I frozen again?
No.
We hear you.
We're just enthralled.
If you freeze, we'll bust a move.
We'll kill you if you freeze.
Okay.
So a vidya, there's two kinds of vidya.
There is the vidya, or the vidya means misunderstanding, right?
A means not, vidya means to know or to get it.
So misunderstanding here refers to thinking.
No, we can't hear you.
Maybe if you don't have your image on and just your sound.
yeah go ahead and cut your video and just tell us we heard too a video means
ah no open your micro video knowing so the misknowing or the misunderstanding
or did you mute it
oops um okay video comes in english video comes in english is to know to to understand to see
video wisdom wit visual anyway so and there's two kinds the kind that you're born with
that you're in the womb and it's it's hot it's there's thing it's um it's warm those things like
you think things are happening to you immediately right and then after you come out there's people
explaining things to you incorrectly like um oh like those people in that other country they're
bad and do bad things to you and it's their fault they're idiots okay so that's and due to that
ignorance, you asmitah. You put an eye on yourself and you give other things a self.
Okay? Things are out there separate from you, have nothing to do with the things you've done.
And once that happens, you have two basic ignorant situations. You can either like things
ignorantly um like maple donuts when you're at uh tim hornet's tim hortons in canada
we've got two canadians and gash always talks about canada when he says this example
tim hortons and uh and you get you grab the last one thinking oh there's a donut i'm gonna take it
and then it's mine and then i'll have it and that's the end of the story um or or devisha
wanting dva means to
it means to separate
wanting to be separate from something
dva and dvesha means to separate
you know like okay
this guy's being crazy
if I punch him in the face
or if I shoot him
I'll be rid of him and no problem
so doing a bad thing
to get something away from you
is dvesha
ignorant disliking
and again that doesn't mean you can't
ignorantly
you can't
I wisdomly dislike things, right? I dislike seeing people hurt each other because they're going to get more pain from it, right?
And then Abhinavesha, you have this strong attachment and grasping to those situations, to your life and to the objects and to yourself.
So the whole thing is like kind of concreted or cemented in your mind.
okay and so my lord maitreya put it this way he said you're born with those two seeds of seeing
things ignorantly um and intellectually understanding them ignorantly because of that
in your mind you have the tendency to in your mind you see the you see things that way
and due to that fact that step two step three you start to like and dislike things
or have that feeling like oh that thing's better than that and then that's three and then four
due to that um you actively like and dislike things you go towards things you like go towards
things you dislike, all with that ignorance in it, right? Thinking it's out there.
And because of that, you then collect karma, right? We say Laysak, you collect negative seeds,
and those seeds create a cycle where you will see yourself experiencing something negative in the
future. And you will collect billions of seeds for more, more avidya and more asmita, more
ignorance, more just misunderstanding and more adding eyes to things that don't really have them.
I am this and okay. And so in the kitchen, when you walk in and expect your husband, because
quote, they're your quote husband to hug you and they do something different. You, you think your
husband is self-existently supposed to act a certain way. And then due to the karma you collected
in the morning from, from getting Dvesha at your kids because you granted them Asmitah, right?
Because your raga wanted to get to the boss in time.
And due to your misunderstanding of the whole situation, how things work, you perpetuate the cycle by reacting out of that ignorance.
Abhinavisha.
And due to that, it korwa koras.
The cycle continues.
And next week, your kids will be jumping on the bed and you will yell at them and yada, yada, yada, come home, no hugs, only anger.
And then again and again and again for until you get it, until you read the Yoga Sutras and go to YSI's course.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
You guys discuss.
I need to go.
And I'm glad I could help a little bit.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Have a good day.
Gracias.
I'll see you guys in class tomorrow morning.
All right.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Calipe.
Okay, guys.
Before you bombard me with all your questions,
Or maybe he just left it super crystal clear.
I'm not sure.
But I was starting to ask you guys, like, does everybody have a book?
Does everybody have an e-book?
We already detected one person who doesn't.
But does everybody have their book?
Okay.
So what I was doing today and trying to figure out, like, what we're doing,
I was thinking about what Earl had told us yesterday in the homework session
about how Master Patanjali gives us a list.
And then in the subsequent verses, he expands on the list.
He defines further the list.
And I feel like this really applies here
because if you do have your book
or you want to just kind of make a mental note,
you know, he starts chapter two with verse one and two
by telling us, you know, what we spoke about yesterday
about the, you know, if you undertake those difficult
practices, if you do those tapas and you do the study and you do the prayers, then, then we're
going to become whole and we're going to through meditation, have all of our negative thoughts go
away. Okay. So he like sets it up as kind of like, okay, here's the goal guys. Like we want to get
rid of all of our negative thoughts. We're going to do some activities to do so. And then in verse
three and four, like this was Tracy's question at the very beginning of this. So if some of you
jumped on a little bit late, where she was asking about what are the five negative emotions? Like,
where can I just get the list of that? So in verse three and four, Master Patanjali lays out
the five negative emotions. He's telling us that it's ignorance, selfness, liking,
disliking, and grasping. So we get these Sanskrit words. We get avidya, asmitah, ragah,
Devesha and Abhinavesha. So he says these are the five, you know, negative emotions, the five mental
afflictions. So then if you jump to number five, he begins to talk about ignorance. So here comes
the avidya and verse five is just going to be talking about the first ignorance that he told us,
this is our misunderstanding of the world in in the class Geshe-la actually said about four
Chinchiloks do you guys did you does that ring a bell did anybody hear this morning when he talked
about Chinchiloks awesome okay so what it is is pretty much just our you know misunderstanding
where we think things that are impermanent are permanent. We think things that are, you know,
really impure are pure. Things that are suffering are pleasure. Things that don't have self have
self. So we just have this total misknowing of how things really are. Then Master Patanjali goes
on to verse six, where he talks about asmita. So we have our list. We started with avidya and then
asmita. So then in verse six, he's talking about this, you know, the selfness, the part of us where
immediately when we're in the womb, we're like, wait, there's too much pressure. It's too hot.
I feel bad. And then as we grow and go through life, we're driving in the car with our, you know,
the highest llama teacher and the temperature in the car is too hot and it's too cold and
you know we realize that it's not the the same temperature for for everyone and then he continues
then in verse seven which one do you think he's going to talk about next
if we did avidya and we did asmita which one's he going to come up next
what's number three raga raga yeah raga exactly so that's what he starts off with
he's saying we're assailed by what feels good we begin to like things so that's the raga that's
that attachment where we see things the wrong way and we talked about this right like what is
ignorant liking? Is it, is he telling us that we can't like anything that we should walk around
and just be like, Oh, whatever. If things are good, if things are bad, it's all the same.
Is that what he's saying? No, it's, it's the famous, you know, maple donut story. It's,
are you willing to hurt somebody else to get what you want? That's the ignorant miss, miss,
you know, misknowing here. That's the, I want the donut so bad. I don't care if the old lady
doesn't get one. So what's Master Patanjali going to say in verse eight? If we did Avidya, Asmita,
Raga, which one's next? Avesha. You got it, of course. So assailed by what feels bad,
we begin to dislike things. And you know, this is like the opposite of the Raga. So it's,
I want to avoid something. I don't want that to happen. So I'm willing to hurt somebody. So that
doesn't happen to me. I don't want to feel the pain. So I'll do something to someone else so that
I avoid it. And then, so what's our fifth one? We did Avidya, Asmita, Raga, Devesha.
Abhinavisha.
Yeah, Abhinavisha and grasping.
Good job, Angelica.
Exactly.
We're going to take that last donut because we misunderstand in the moment where things are coming from.
So our liking and our disliking grows.
It gets stronger and stronger and stronger.
And we misunderstand the how versus the why.
We think the donut is in the shop because there's a bakery, there's a factory, there's a baker.
you know, that's, that's the how, but we misunderstand the why.
The why I'm going to get the donut is because I took care of other people in the past.
So Master Patanjali tells us, he gives us the list and then he breaks each one of them down.
And then in verse 10 and 11, he comes back because at the very beginning,
you guys remember if we go back to verse one and two he told us so the purpose of meditation is
that we're going to take away all those negative thoughts and then he closes it back up in verse 10
and 11 and he says cutting off their flow requires elimination of very subtle problems so he's
talking about those clashes you want to cut those clashes off you have to eliminate the flow
and these are the ways that the mind turn no excuse me these ways that the mind turns are
eliminated in deep meditation so we just did a circle he told us in verse one hey guys watch out
we're going to do some practices and through meditation we're gonna you know stop this thing
here's your five problems he listed out the five problems and then he brought it back and was like
So remember, if you want to cut those off, you have to do deep meditation.
And that's kind of where we are right now in the book.
In the first two days, that's what we've seen.
So I would love to hear from you guys.
Does that help with the review?
What are you guys feeling?
Questions, comments?
All right.
I can take it.
Bring it on.
yeah um dulcie beer tea it is turning so it's the turning of our mind so for example when I'm
seeing things I think this is delicious coffee oh my gosh it's coming at me but my dogs don't go
that's coffee I want some so the coffee's not shouting at me it's not coffee coffee coffee
It's not telling everybody what it is. So in that case, my mind is turning it around. My mind is
mistaken that this is coffee and I got it because I have the ingredients. I made it, you know,
no, I have the ingredients. I was able to make it. It's hot. It's warm. It's delicious
because one time I took care of other people in the past. So that Bertie is the turning
of our mind. And the negative emotions are the five that master Patanjali talked about and pretty
I mean, you guys, it's any time that you are angry, irritated, something is bothering you.
That's the ultimate one they're asking.
Is there a question, sweetie?
What do you mean?
The verti train.
She asked if verti was a negative emotion itself.
The ultimate negative emotion is ignorance.
Because that's where we remember he talked about the field.
like ignorance is the thing that underlies all of it
like word was word was talking about the story of the husband and the two husbands in the kitchen
and how it kind of just goes in a cycle so if i'm doing the you know yelling at my kids
that comes from the misunderstanding the negative liking and the negative disliking
I'm I'm I'm ignorantly disliking that my kids are not on time right like come on get on time let's
go why aren't you you know reacting because of my ignorant looking I want to get to work on time I
want them to get to school on time so I'm yelling at them because I want these other things to
happen so here I am between my negative like my ignorant liking and my ignorant ignorant disliking
and because I have that asmita I see my daughter out here and me over here and I think that my
daughter is the one that's late she's the one that's goofing off she's the one that's not prepared
she's out here and I forget oh she's like that because she's coming from me
so I have this whole cycle going on I have this ignorant liking this ignorant disliking
I'm yelling at the kids. The kids are now separate from myself, the Asnita. And I have the Abhinavesha.
I'm grasping and I'm thinking, you are coming from your own side. You're a kid. I'm the mom.
I can manipulate you, tell you what you're supposed to do. And so now I have this big,
like, you know, storm going on and yeah, exactly. Guilty as charged. And then that's how I know the
story so well and then the whole reason is because I had that misunderstanding that that very first
seed that I brought into the world with me is this misknowing so that's the underlying
ultimate negative emotion that kind of like you know contaminates the whole rest of our view
I thought Keshla said it was anger today oh it was now that I just gave a big
explanation i thought he told me that well i thought he said in the class today that the
ultimate anger emotion was anger and then he went through five different levels of it and the last
one was bitterness and resentment which causes more clashes but i could be totally wrong
he did talk about anger today and he did go into the like first you get off balance and then there's
the irritation and the anger and the resentment. Yeah. So I thought he referred to that as the
ultimate like negative, negative emotion. And then he went through the five years of it. Am I
confused? No, let's see. Are you talking about a specific homework question? It's a homework
question, but earlier, like when you were responding to, I think it was Dolce, you said the ultimate
negative emotion was ignorance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said it was ignorance, but I'm asking if this
question comes from a specific homework question. Or you guys are just like, want to know which is
the worst of all the negative emotions. No, I, I heard Dolce asking you that question and you
were answering it, but I know there's a question in the homework and I put anger down. So I might
be wrong. I don't know. So we'll see. Can you tell me what number is the homework?
It's number one. On today? Day two, number one? Yeah.
the ultimate negative emotion is to misunderstand where something or someone is coming from
thinking that the husband or the wife who's yelling at us is coming
from anywhere except the seeds in our mind
so yeah it's the it's the ignorance that's gonna you know contaminate all of that the ignorance is
why is gonna make us jealous the ignorance is gonna make us angry the ignorance is gonna make us like
love the fact that you know ice cream tastes so good and then you're like wait it's not the
goodness of the ice cream. Wait, it's not, you know, my kids not listening. It was just.
Okay. So then when it comes to the primary and secondary, what would be the secondary for the
ignorance? Cause I know the example that Geshla talked about in the lecture today, he said anger
was the negative emotion. And then he said the secondary would, that it would be promoting growth.
So if we use ignorance as the ultimate negative emotion, what would be the secondary part to it?
Like there was a primary and a secondary, I think.
Yeah, I think I'm not going to be able to answer that one from myself.
I know he said that there's, you know, the primary negative emotions.
And then I think there's like 20 secondary negative emotions or thoughts.
but honestly, I'm not even going to like venture to pretend I know that.
So I'm sorry. I'm going to fall short on that one. I can, I got the primary,
but the secondary 20, I'm going to fall very short. I'm sorry guys.
Okay. Thank you.
Back up word. Come back.
Anybody else? What are you guys thinking?
Did that clarify at least now that I've been talking for like 20 minutes?
you're great Lydia thank you oh awesome Benji be careful I'm really glad you're here though
um I have a question I don't know right
okay um so I was hanging out with dad and grandpa today and I got to watch how um
primary clashes get made and from what I saw like it starts with ignorance
and misunderstanding that grandpa's not coming from his own side and so then you kind of get like
taken back by that he's asking for some punch and then you get upset like oh this has happened before
he's so selfish and then like anger really barks really quickly because this is a pattern that
happens a lot between that and grandpa and then i i could see the resentment too like i saw the
seeds of resentment that were there because it was like a habitual some sara pattern
and so then i started to wonder about seeds that come from our parents and ancestral seeds
even like genetically speaking and then even the seeds of our of our world and
I've heard it talked about of like you know ancestral karma and even the karma of our world
affecting who we are and so I'm wondering like where that ancestral karma um comes from and
does it really affect our seeds you know does it determine like how we see the pen
like does that we're even able to see the color of black and the shape of brown
and things like that.
I guess like, you know,
it might be a deeper question of like,
where did these really come from?
It's like, how come they're the shape that they are?
You know, I don't know.
Well, I definitely, I mean,
this definitely comes into play.
I think, you know,
what you're saying about the cycle, right?
Like the, okay, first we get off balance
and then we get irritated,
the anger, the resentment,
And that can happen really quick, especially with our loved ones, right?
Like if we have an interaction with somebody walking down the street or maybe like a waiter
or a waitress, we might just get off balance, right?
And we're like, I'm a little irritated.
But then you can rein it in and be like, I'm studying this.
I know what to do.
Thank you very much.
You know, but bring a kid into it, bring a parent into it.
And all of a sudden it's like, they're that way.
They've always been that way.
You know, it's really hard to change it.
So the whole first three stages can just kind of like ignite in a second, right?
And then where I think we could take this is today, Geshe-la really focused or, you know,
spent time talking about the six stages that Maitreya talks about.
And here, you know, the first part is kind of the same.
You know, he's telling us that we have the ignorance, then we get the liking and the
disliking.
And then he talks about how that's going to grow.
Like over time, that ignorant liking and disliking, it's going to kind of like build up.
And then for him, the fifth one, it says that we collect karma.
You know, we do the action.
We're living life.
So we're taking the donut.
We're yelling at grandpa, or at least we're making a face at him or, you know, we're doing
something right.
At the least, we have the thoughts going off in our head of like, he's so annoying.
Why is he doing that?
Why is he always doing that?
So we collect karma.
We're planting these seeds.
And that's where then step six for Maitreya.
It talks about the samsaric circle.
So you're perpetuating the suffering.
You're just going back and forth.
Because you did the bad deed that grandpa's annoying or you yelled at him or whatever the case may be.
You did that because you had the, you know, disliking the object ignorantly, or you liked the object ignorantly.
Either you wanted him to, you know, go with the show, you wanted to be in charge, or you just wanted him to, you know, stop talking, whatever the situation, right?
But you misunderstood and you saw it in a ignorant way.
And that's because you saw grandpa over here and you over here.
You know, it's no longer grandpa coming for me. Oh yeah, that was me last week. It's grandpa is
always the same. What's wrong with him? So see how we're like going backwards in the cycle.
And the reason that we saw him out here is because we have that ignorance in our mind
because we were born with it and we brought it from our back, our past life. So we did,
We brought in a lot of that with us and we can perpetuate it.
And we keep going in the circle because we also know the four laws of karma, that the karma is going to grow.
So if we did this little act in the past of yelling, we're going to have the bigger act of yelling.
And if we continue with it, it's just going to grow and grow and grow.
So we can see grandpa as this like angry dude.
And he's just always this angry dude.
And so we just keep going in the circle.
Does that kind of clarify a little bit, Benji,
without going into like massive details
of like where the first seed comes from?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think ultimately my question,
because as you know, I work with kids.
And so I'm wondering like,
To what degree do we pass on that collection of karma to our children?
You know, do you feel that your karma that was unresolved before you had your children gets passed on to your children?
And to what level is that connection made?
Like, from our past life, I see that, like, we're saying, okay, from our past life, we're bringing on those karmic seeds.
But then we also take on the womb and coming into the world again through the womb.
And I'm wondering if we take on our parents' karma, would we do that?
Okay.
Yeah, totally.
I have an answer for you, but I also see Dulce and Anjali with their hands up.
So if you two want to chime in on this issue or something, like if you want to add before
I talk, totally unmute yourself and go for it.
If you have a separate question, I can get to in a second.
But Anjali or Dulce, did you want to chime in to Benji?
yeah okay do you want to go first go ahead go ahead um so I was uh reflecting on this as well
because this came up today when I was doing some google search to get some clarification on the
questions and people were talking about how a lot of times the knots and how they're directly related
to trauma and I'm really interested in trauma healing as well and I feel like a lot of times
there's both ancestral trauma, right? Like trauma that our parents didn't have healed,
which are the seeds that gets passed down to us as well as like collective and all of that.
And so I feel like that can definitely be related in the process of personal trauma healing that
helps undoes some of those knots. Um, cause I feel like a lot of times, um, when you have those
experiences, it can be easy to, because if the pain is still manifesting in your life in various
ways, it can be easy to sort of like continue to knot those knots or cling to those in that way,
because it's hard to undo it when you're like, but look at what's happening because of this.
And like, there's all of these, the causations are still there. Um, and it's easy to,
to cling to them in some ways and to sort of perpetuate them through an unwillingness to
forgive as well as what I found in personal experience. And so for me, I found that a lot
of times forgiveness has been a major key. And in order to do that, I needed a crap ton of space
and then kind of to have like a sort of moment where there was like a snap, like sort of like,
this is, this needs to be done now. And so I feel like it doesn't always have to be that way. And
that if there is our processes like this, like yoga, for example, and communities like this,
where you, there can be a willingness to forgive earlier on and to work on that process slowly
over time and to loosen that sort of soften those hard edges. And then to see that manifestation
and interactions because it truly is possible and it's somewhat miraculous and I feel like that can
definitely be passed down to children so instead of passing down trauma we're passing down the
seeds of healing and restoration that those kids can then offer to their peers and etc etc
thank you Dulcy. Anjali did you want to jump in on that?
yeah that was just tremendous expression thank you so much and I I really loved this I love the flow
that's happening here and you know that you were expressing um uh how this relates to the to
Maitreya's steps Lydia it's really beautiful and then what she just shared about and what Benji
brought up about ancestral stuff you know in my experience I've come to learn a couple things
about this. And one is that I agree, you know, these ideas are very, it's exalted thinking.
It's incredible, exalted thinking. You do need to have like a sort of a basis in order to be able
to take something like this in. Because if you just go up to somebody who's had trauma and tell
them it's coming from you, the, you know, compassion goes out the window. And then there's
there's really that person could be very well hurt or by their misunderstanding of what you're
saying because you know and there is actually even a vow in the bodhisattva vows not to teach
emptiness to anyone who his mind is not prepared and so I think that it's a very delicate thing
this whole thing with ancestral stuff because if you are in the in the you know in the pocket of
studying these things, but let's say your parents aren't, or your kids aren't really interested,
or your wife's not interested, then it becomes very delicate territory because you don't want
to take them down that road, you know, in a way that could create further problems and
misunderstanding. But what came up for me around what Benji's question and what was just shared
was about the four ways karma flowers.
You know, we have karma flowers in four ways.
It flowers in a similar way, you know,
as we, you know, so shall we reap,
you know, like we plant the seed,
we're going to get a similar fruit.
It plants, it ripens in the form of habit.
We have habits and it ripens in the form of our environment.
We experience our environment based upon those seeds.
And then it's a throwing karma.
It throws us into the next life with millions, like what word was saying, the millions of
the seeds that we collect from misunderstanding and those five and six steps, you know.
So, but what's interesting to me is in the realm of ancestral stuff and how we took it
and how we pass it on, you know, I'll just say this once.
there was a teacher, I'm not going to mention their name, who was asked a question about
parenting, you know, about, you know, well, what do we do? You know, how do we make our
kids do what we want them to do? You know, we don't want them to be like us. You know,
what do we do? And
Maybe, you know, rebelled and all that.
And it got passed down.
But this teacher said, they do do what you do.
So to become an example, I think is the most powerful way to actually plant a new habit
and to become an example and to heal ourselves.
It's just to, they're going to do what you do, you know, and to undo what we were taught
before is kind of where we're at with coming to the yoga sutra training and being like i gotta
unravel this but uh that to me is sort of the linchpin to get the wedge in there
to stop the flow of the passing it down and continuing the problems um
you know with those four flowers especially with habit habits noticing habits and such
and how the environment is kind of kicking back
and showing us what needs to be done next.
So that's what I have from that,
just using that to extrapolate what seeds are in play
and then making some changes to put the wedge in there
to get to the tap roots so that the tree falls over,
we don't have to play that out over and over and over and over again in our future lives,
maybe even in this life. Thank you for generating that conversation. It's really
dear to my heart. Yeah. Thank you, Anjali. So nice to see you. Nice to see you too.
Angelica, I think you have your hand up.
Yes, I do. Thank you to all what you have said so far.
What came up to my mind listening to Benji was we have the seed to realize that the things are coming from us.
But still we have the seeds that it happens, that we have the situation that we think the things are still coming from outside.
So working with kids, then it happens or working with parents, it happens.
Yeah.
That in the situation, yeah, I'm caught up with, okay, it's him or it's the boss or the husband.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Definitely.
Alfonso, you want to jump in on this action?
yes yes thank you for for sharing thank you for uh everything that has been shared and said and i
just want to remind us of something because it's very easy to to um to uh lose it and it's the fact
that we cannot change others' seeds.
So when we're perceiving these things,
when we're things like trauma and conditions in others
and we're perceiving them,
we don't even know how the other persons
are perceiving that same thing.
And we don't even know what's going on
in the mind of others and the perception of others.
So our perception itself, it's coming from our own seeds.
And I really like the thing about being able to change by the example.
So it comes down to the famous Gandhi phrase of being the change to want to see in the world.
Because if we didn't even have the seeds in our mind to see people suffering from trauma, then they will not appear to us in our lives.
So it's reminding us, ourselves, that even that is coming from, that it's in our mind.
And then when we see that, it's not to not get involved or to become cold-hearted and less compassionate or identify less.
It's just to really get in contact with our compassion, but from a very wise place, from a place that understands that even that that we're feeling, even the possibility of being compassionate to that and having empathy towards that people is coming from the seats, too.
So just wanted to remind us of that.
So it's bringing it back.
No, definitely.
And I do want to make a comment before you jump in, Tracy, like there was, you know,
talk about like our parents passing down things to us.
And I would kind of like to challenge that idea a little bit.
Kind of what Alphonse was trying to say is like, it's more so I have the seeds to be
born into that family because we can't be passing our karma back and forth.
Like I can't pass my kids good karma.
They just had good karma to be born in my house.
No, but I mean, like, no, for reals, like they're born because we have similar habits
and similar, you know, patterns and their karma perpetuated them into this situation.
So while it may seem like, oh, I'm, I, you know, I have the same type of things that
my parents do, or like, this is my like ancestral lineage.
And this is the things that we're dealing with, but you were born in that lineage because
you have the same karma as that lineage is kind of where I would like us to remember that like
our seeds are coming from us and we can be paired with other people that have similar
seeds all right
thank you for this beautiful discussion everyone and from what Benji was saying about this whole
ancestral thing thinking about the seeds and everything from my own personal experience
I have seen families that I've treated where there's generational issues. The great grandmother broke her coccyx when she had her first child. The grandmother had broken coccyx when she had her firstborn. The daughter broke her coccyx with her firstborn.
So when I see these type of patterns, it makes me question and wonder, how does that type of generational stuff happen if that whole ancestral seeds, like how does it get carried on and carried through?
And then from another lens, I treat a lot of kids.
And a lot of the times families will bring in kids and they're coming in with this view like this child is making my life hell and is causing so many problems in this household.
And we need to fix this kid.
and always, I swear to God, 99% of the time, it's not the kid that's the problem. It's actually
the parents, the family, the relationships, the dynamics. And I often find it incredible
that a kid will come here. And I, I ended up working with very gifted children.
I almost feel like it's their seeds and they had the karma to come see me. And the next thing,
you know, I'm, I'm working with the kid. And in the first session, it ends up being the mom
that comes for the next few sessions. And then the dad comes and then the brother comes. And then I
never end up having any issue with the kid and the kid totally resolves itself. And I end up teaching
the pen if it shows up. And so then the whole household gets the dynamics of this ship. So I
find it very fascinating, even on an old, my own personal level, just with all these discussions
that were happening and how I've witnessed it from a lens from trauma and healing and helping people
with that kind of stuff. So I just thought I would share some of that stuff. I don't know if it kind
of helps or anything, but I just want to share. Thank you, Tracy. We have Angelina and Dulcey back.
Go ahead, ladies. I just wanted to say one thing about
karmic connections. There's an expression that I learned when I was visiting
Taiwan one time, and it's called Yuan Fun. And I know I botched the Chinese. Yuan Fun is basically
a context of a karmic connection that you share with a group of people. Like right now, we have a
Yuan Fun, and, you know, families have a Yuan Fun, and when you have, you know, different types of
situations. And that's sort of the way that perhaps it can be explained some of that generational
stuff. You know, it's like, there's this sort of karmic connection around that.
That's one thought I had. Also, you know, there's proof,
this would be a debate because if you think about like children that are involved,
that come from, let's say violent families and, and, and there's two children,
but one has more resilience than the other. And they were both treated very similarly.
So one came in with a certain karma and the other didn't. And so it's a proof that these things are not necessarily a function of what's happening to the child.
And however, you know, we can get all into all this intellectual banter around seeds.
The most important part, and I think really it's just when you work in psychology, like, I don't remember the name of the woman that just shared, but it's so hard to see this, you know.
And the most important thing always, especially if you can't get to the pen, is what Alfonso said, compassion and empathy, not only for what we see, but for ourselves or what we are experiencing in the ripening of our own ignorance and our own pain.
And I think that this is really missed. If we don't do that, we're kind of bypassing a little bit of the experience of being in this spiritual being, having a human experience.
And so all of this is such rich conversation for how do we create a connection between karma and emptiness that leads us to compassion and empathy more deeply in our everyday life?
that's all I have to say about that thank you so much love this conversation it's amazing
really beautiful group today love yesterday too thank you Anjali you can go ahead and wrap us up
Dulcy okay so first off Anjali I love what you said about tying it together with that like let's
always remember to come back to the core um the heart of it and so thank you for that and then
Also, what Lydia was saying, I really like that as well, because I haven't always thought about it that way, about matching seeds and karma and incarnations in that sense.
Because a lot of times, so I like that. And also a lot of times what I have tended to study or resonate with is the concept of choosing families for different purposes and different sort of like things that are needed on the planet.
and so I feel like both can be true and maybe in the same circumstances and maybe in different
circumstances I think it can I don't really know for sure that but what I have really resonated with
in the past is the concept of choosing family lineages for specific healing purposes that may
or may not be related to karma and may or may not be related to karma on this planet as well because
I feel like it's definitely possible to have karma from, I believe in other life, from
this, maybe this is showing that I believe in other like life planets, life in other
planets besides this one and other spaces besides this one as well.
But yeah, so I'm curious about that as well.
And what that could mean.
Thank you so much for sharing. Today was a lovely conversation. I think we can all kind of like leave with some beautiful thoughts, how we can get, you know, that love, empathy and combine it with this knowledge and wisdom that we have.
So from my side, it was a pleasure.
I hope you guys enjoyed it.
Tomorrow morning, we have yoga at 5 a.m. with Alfonso.
Alfonso teaches tomorrow on my screen.
This is Alfonso over here.
And then we have meditation with Adriana, followed by teachings with Geshe-Lan, some more Sanskrit.
So everybody take care.
In my case, go to bed early and see you guys tomorrow morning.
Thanks, Lydia.
Thanks for the time.
Thank you, Lydia.
Thank you, everybody.
Love you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.