<iframe src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CjfbP_2rVUjQxSMarUvxHaTsmFXfIpBb/preview" width="100%" height="80" allow="autoplay"></iframe> Hi, Tracy. Hi, Benji. How was your day? Good. I started my day today with a great Naguma class. Thank you for that. My pleasure, honestly. Yeah. where are you anyway are you in the states or in canada i mean where yeah i'm in asheville in where asheville where's that asheville north carolina oh okay okay just when i when i really quiet when i saw your yoga space um it reminded me of like bc when i used to live out west so i wasn't sure where do you live now new brunswick canada so i'm either on the east coast or the west coast i'm on the east now yeah yeah never been here it's beautiful yeah it is it's this side we have like more ocean beaches and like a little bit of hills but you know out west you got everything too but not as much ocean hey margie i like that you're rocking in a rocking chair that's pretty sweet i'm rocking too are you rocking margie yeah are you are you running the the the satsang tonight i don't think so no not that you know of yet yeah did you go hiking today margie she just disappeared yeah she's in sedona so i went for a swim today did you yeah in a lake in an ocean um there's a river nearby and we go and jump in nice it's funny i've never been to north carolina but uh a lot of lovely people that i've met from there really nice there's a lot of plants i came here for plants yeah a lot of mountains a lot of biodiversity and it's technically a temperate rainforest it's really cool nice are you a landscaper uh yeah like farmer gardener yeah my my like hey you're not the farmer you're not the farmer jed that was in the peach tree cafe were you i've always wanted to get mangoes out of corn though that's like a dream come true hey if you ever flip and manage to do that we're gonna call you a serious rock star hey i planted a pear tree and got peaches i'm just saying did you really yeah i did margie you have to tell us your secret i tell you my karma is weird girl just came on so we gotta let him in on the secret oh earl i planted a pear tree and got peaches what seriously didn't i glenn no oh you just got busted no we called it it was supposed to be pears we called the tree perry or something like that and then these fuzzy things showed up well were the fuzzy things like edible did they taste good yeah they were getting about this big really and then i got top heavy and it broke oh this one sounds sketchy i'm having really bad pear tree problems here i like peaches and pears so it didn't matter yeah anything would be good right just be able to go pick it off the tree that'd be pretty sweet yeah benji nice class today man yay thank you um did the audio quality get better like after your suggestion or like it got better for me it was still um it was kind of crack or what's the word like the seemed like the internet connection was sketchy i don't know if it was that or the microphone but like a long sentence would get kind of broken up individual words were clear but it was way better for me it was it went from challenging to totally fine so i'm wondering if everybody who heard and tapped in if their seeds had a different experience because once he moved closer i didn't have any issue anymore i heard him clearly cool it's funny i i saw the seeds in the practice i saw the seed that made that whole like that happened for me yeah awesome i'm glad to get the feedback that it became more clear yeah yeah i was hoping it didn't throw you off to such a challenging way to start when someone interrupts you it was like oh i'm glad you did yeah Cool. That was a great class today from Geshe Michael too, I thought. Very good. I was catching up. Hey, Teresi. It's the game. We're all here. Record or copy the chat? Because I didn't get to see the chat today. I usually will copy down fun things that you all write, but I wasn't on the computer. I was at the actual teaching, so I didn't see the chat. Oh, la-ti-da. La-ti-da. I did not. I think when you record, the chat is recorded, so someone would have the file. Oh, so if I go recording? we have the we have the a copy of the chat we can get that if you want something specific from it oh yeah just email it to me and i'll just look through and see if there's stuff sometimes you guys talk about fun words or how to spell them and stuff and i like to copy those down there was lots in there you'd like it it was lots of what lots of that type of stuff i know what she's talking about like when you guys write the verses and the sanskrit and stuff i think there was lydia are you um at home are you on the road or um i'm on the road that's why i made you the host and i'm calling in on the phone right now okay cool um i will be at a place in a moment and then i can okay cool i have to go 10 minutes early so tere or um lydia if you can um take control at 10 2 that would be great for sure but let's um i didn't hear what did you tell me i have to leave at 10 minutes early so if someone on the ysi staff can take over control all of these hooligans for the last 10 minutes. That would be great. Let's start, though. I wanted to start with the verses. Do people have the verses in front of them? That will be helpful. The verses just from today? Let's go back a little bit. I'd like to start at verse 14. That seems like a very popular verse. We keep coming back to that one. Yeah. Let me see if I can grab it. what's who's got verse 14 does someone want to read it go ahead no go ahead Benji okay you're on a roll dude There is a connection of cause and effect that seeds ripen into experiences refreshingly pleasant or painful in their torment, depending on whether you have done good to others or done them wrong instead. Yeah, cool. So what this verse is saying, among other things, is if you do a good deed, which is what? What's the Sanskrit for that? If you do a good deed, you get what? You get a pala, you get a result, which is? Pleasant fruit. Yeah, something pleasant. What's the Sanskrit for that? punya no punya is the good deed something oh yeah you get something a pleasant thing in return So, okay, cool. We've got this idea that a good deed, a punya, produces a pala, a result, that is enjoyable. What's the next verse say? The torment of change is caused by those same seeds of suffering, and stopping how the mind turns things around to have qualities of their own allows one to discern how truly every part of our lives is suffering. Anyone have a problem with these two verses? Like what did verse 14 we said, hey, look, if we do something good, we get a good result. And then what's the next verse say? dukam eva sarvam duka suffering eva like i think it means like each sarva is all what's the problem i i i have a i go okay i have a question regarding the second one why does it say that the torment of change is caused by the same seeds of suffering is it change something equal to suffering always yeah exactly that's the buddhist take i think that's kind of the road i'm trying to go down it led me to a question today which was the four laws of karma number four if you do something the consequences cannot be lost and then in the priority the priority system number two unless habitual karmas will open first Yeah, those are just the priorities. So I don't want to go too far. Good things will smother our bad seed. Yeah, not permanently though. The bad seed will eventually happen. More or less. But let's go dig down on this. Isn't it weird to say, hey, do a good deed of punya, you'll get a pala, a result that's totally enjoyable. Next verse, oh, by the way, dukkha evasarvam. Suffering, all of it. Every part of our life is suffering. so the end of suffering is something that doesn't change now would be implied um which noble truth is this first of all suffering of change the second one That's the second of the three types of suffering. Which Arya truth is this? The first one, suffering exists? Yeah, it's suffering. It's saying everything is suffering. And then, Marjorie, you're right. It's describing the second of the three sufferings. When it says everything is suffering, we could describe that within the context of the three sufferings. And this particular one is describing the suffering of change, Parinamattapa. But at some point, someone's going to say, wait a minute, you just said that there's a good result from a good seed. And now you're saying everything is suffering. So good results and good things are suffering? Well, because they end, right? They feel good at the time, but when they go away, then that's when the suffering happens. I remember Geshe-la was talking also at one point about how even good karma is suffering because karma itself is what's keeping us in samsara, which contains suffering. Did he say that? Something like that. We were talking about that yesterday a little bit. Yeah. Does karma bind you to samsara? But what you just said was, there's a good deed that you enjoy, there's happiness, and then it ends. Right? So there is a time when things happen that are good, when we're having happiness. Right? So why is that suffering? Because you're going to want more. Like when the new partner... Wanting more is the suffering, not the enjoying the good thing. Yeah, but you get yourself the good thing, right? And you're like, okay, once I get a new house, and then the person gets the new house, and then it never ends because then they want to have the new furniture and they want to have that kind of thing, where it's always making you want more. If you have a meal and you enjoy it, in the moment that you're enjoying it, What's the, why is that suffering? Because you might want more the next day and that might be suffering. Yeah. I accept that. But just in the moment when you're enjoying it, why is that suffering? Because sooner or later, once that meal's digested, you're going to get hungry. So there's suffering later when you're hungry. It's maybe. Sorry, guys, I'm on the phone. Can I jump in? Jump in. Okay, I think it's because we're mistaking it. We're mistaking something that is impermanent as permanent. Like we're enjoying the meal, but that's an impermanent meal. So you're saying that ignorance is a mental affliction. Yeah, ignorance is a mental affliction. Even though yesterday we said it wasn't. i know um well i still think i like the glass thing i was talking about yesterday like the field you know so but the field's not the suffering it's the shit that grows out of the field that's suffering yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah is the awareness no but i don't know Go ahead. I'm just wondering, like you're sitting there having a great dinner, but you now have read the Yoga Sutras. So now you have awareness that like you are going to get hungry in the future. So now you have awareness of samsara in and of itself right here in this moment, even though you have sensation of feeling pleasant. So I'm enjoying something. And then I have this thought, samsara blows. right i would say thought maybe yeah i guess so let's talk about the moment before the thought this blows the thought that's this is awesome the thought that happens before the this blows thought that this is awesome thought why is it suffering okay i'm with you maybe it's not suffering because if you're enjoying it with wisdom on top of that if you're enjoying it with wisdom knowing that it's that pleasure it's not coming from their own side dulcie's raised got a raised hand what do you got um so my perspective on this is if like I've seen like a mouse in a trap and so the mouse is in the trap and like you lift the lever off a little bit like you push it up somehow you get some cheese and you're like oh yeah I'm feeling pretty good about this and then the trap comes down because there's something else that happened and like either way like even if you temporarily feel better um in some moments or uh like the I like yeah better in some moments or worse than others you're still in the trap so it doesn't really like even and it's like nice to be creating more kindness in the trap but if it's still in the trap then it's not going to be like it's not like how do you get out of the trap and I think that's what we referred to a little bit today so that ties in pretty well so if you're enjoying a nice meal of cheese while you're in the trap even though you're enjoying it you're still in the trap so you're still suffering even though you're enjoying yeah alfonso all right sorry i'm i'm still finishing my salad i'll do it don't enjoy your salad man it's not possible you're you're ready enjoying enjoying and enjoying and pleasure i i i kind of feel that our inside uh what we can understand as suffering i just want to kind of like point out to a lowercase and an uppercase suffering. Like the intrinsic suffering of samsara and the human state, and then the actual suffering of having the emotion and sensation of not being well with what's going on in that particular moment. so there's like the the big suffering is samsara the small suffering is like i got kicked in the shins exactly yeah something like that because i mean even if you got everything you wanted in your life all the time how many of how many of that are you going to take with you when you rot and die yeah zero but um but while you have that and you're enjoying it my question is why is that suffering i just sorry i just want to end this phrase it was like when i meant the uppercase and the lowercase suffering kind of thing had to do in relation to to time maybe so if you're in the now it's it's it's a relative time but when you see time as your different time you've been around and going in circles and all this then suffering takes another context another context okay so if i'm just bound in linear time i'm just me i'm just like enjoying my meal am i suffering just okay sorry go ahead i'm going more in the idea of the going to pleasure there are a lot of things that we do that we know they're not okay but that still we enjoy them a lot right like that piece of chocolate you know like i shouldn't eat it but then you still eat it and you still enjoy it but you know it's not okay so still you're suffering but you're you know enjoying it so that's where my mind went to if you're enjoying it that's a thought it's a discrete thought. Can you simultaneously be suffering? Another discrete thing. Can you be enjoying and suffering and suffering at the same time? Yeah. I think about those songs that you love so much that you hear a hundred times. And then in the end, you totally hate it, but you still love it. You know, things like, I don't know if I'm bipolar, I've been there like I love this song but I hate it I don't want to listen to it but I used to love it you know so it's I don't know it's kind of mixed feelings sometimes I'm thinking about how what oops here you have your hand up I'm I'm trapped in your question so that was my goal maybe yes so maybe the answer I don't understand the first two lines. It says, the torment of change is caused by suffering. I would have thought it was the other way around. You suffer because things change. And here it says, the change comes from your seeds of suffering. Is it like that? I think it's both. I think you could look at it either way. The torment of change is caused by those same, I don't know, it's an interesting question because those same seeds of suffering what does that refer to the same seeds of suffering because it means why same does it mean does punya and punya seeds because we just said the punya seeds don't create suffering so is it just the apunya seeds that create paritapa that he's referring to in verse 15 i don't think so It'd be a great debate. You could debate Geshe Michael here and put him in a rough spot. What is that? Why does he say the same seeds of suffering? What's the traditional Buddhist answer of why experiencing a good thing is suffering? Because they end. Yeah, because they end. So you're enjoying something, but it's really suffering because it's going to end. Which is a pretty fascinating idea, because what's the implication? you can't enjoy anything yeah one implication is you can't enjoy anything what's the other that everything ends that everything ends but also it implies that you can get to a place where the enjoyment of something doesn't end. Santosha. And that, I don't know. Interesting. Because you could have some Sarek Santosha and we're in that same problem. Does that Santosha? It'd have to be never ending Santosha. Well, I don't know. Santosha would would end and then because so and that's my point so then santosha that ends isn't santosha at all so i think that's right i think it's kind of like being content with the fact that like balance is not a set it and forget it thing so you're constantly just playing the game of like keeping yourself in balance through your whole existence not going too far into like not too far into dislike and always trying to be aware of all of always where the world is coming from and so you have you find contentment and peace with that whole existence i don't know Dulcy said, but isn't it at some point? I'm not sure what the it is. Yeah, sorry about the typo. But I was thinking of how also kind of we were talking about today, how there's a point that people reach where that's no longer a concern for them. And so, yeah, that's what I was referring to. cool tracy that um that first line the torment of change is caused what comes to my mind is i think about i think geshela talked about this today where he was talking about the seeds and when you think about those seeds going off like i had this moment earlier where i was outside and I was focused on something. And then I wanted to see my seeds that what I was seeing in the beauty and it was caused by me. Well, the time it took me to think that there was hundreds of seeds that had gone off. So when I think about the torment of change, it's almost like, yeah, okay. In the moment it took you to say, oh my goodness, I'm loving this meal. How many seeds went off with other things firing and happening or what have you. And then at one point, I remember today, Geshe-la said the goal, like the thing to get to was that your mind is no longer needing movement like that function. And so when I read that first phrase, that's what comes to my mind, that whole thing that we have no choice but to have that torment, because no matter how much of a some uh diana state or whatever state you want to get to with that focus those seeds are still firing and going off so that has to create torment and change is constant that we can't even i can't even wrap my thought around to think about that anyway that's my two cents um yeah interesting that that constant torment of change can feel like that drive you crazy Teresa I was thinking maybe if you come with this logic of where is the end of enjoying it and starting to not enjoying it you can't grasp that moment where it was only pleasure regarding the moment when the seed starts to become a tree and you can't find that moment you come or not what if it's just as simple as we enjoy something do we accept that we should because we should be able to accept that there's a thing called hlada, pleasure. And then we say, well, no, even that pleasure is really suffering. Why? Well, because it ends. That's just a definition, right? That's just some kind of weird Buddhist definition. Look, we're going to call that happiness, suffering. which is a contradiction in itself we're going to call that thing happiness which you're like by definition we're experiencing happiness we've already labeled it happiness but we're going to relabel it something it's actually really suffering because it ends it's just a definition we've just redefined what happiness means What if we said happiness is something that you enjoy? Have we just reinvented happiness? All right, let's go to the. But I think, yeah. Do you want to keep going on this or do you want to go somewhere else? I was going to go to the next verse, but I'm happy. All right, we can just go. Okay. Well, do you want to go? Go for it. Well, I just keep coming back to the same thing where, yeah, in the moment, again, my coffee is great, right? Like that's like my adult greatest pleasure is coffee. So, yes, I enjoy it. but because it comes to an end like it does it will always provoke a suffering so we have to you know kind of in this case we have these teachings where we can wrap our mind around the fact that like i'm tired i'm done i don't want to suffer after my coffee's gone so at least what's happened to me in my trajectory of practice and this might sound a little depressing But like things that used to make me happy, now I'm like, eh, not really cutting it anymore. Like that's not what I want. Like I don't want that false momentary like short-term happiness. So that's what I was like connecting it to. Like the part of the four chinchiloks where it's like you're confused. You're mistaking something that's impermanent for something that's permanent. Right. So if you weren't confused, that same experience would be actually happiness and not suffering. Yeah, I think that it's, for an example, it's the ignorance, but ignorance is bliss ignorance. Like, I don't know. I'm not aware. I don't have the knowing that this is causing me suffering. I think the coffee is delicious. It makes me happy. Right. I'm going to go to work with money so I can buy coffee. Like I'm totally just like in the wrong frame of mind. Isn't that a Pramata? A correct perception? Well, okay. In chapter one, we learned, yes, it's a correct perception in the sense that it's a cup, it's a coffee, it's, you know, all those things. But it's incorrect perception. Perception. Because that's what we learned. that we've never actually had a correct perception because the actual like real thing that's going on is that everything is coming from me. And until you have that experience directly, you've never had a correct perception. Oh boy, do we want to dig? Should we go down that road? We can totally go to the next thing. We can bypass this. So there's no such thing as a correct perception. There is. You can't stand in front of the taxi. The taxi is going to hit you and you're going to break your legs. Like I get it. It's a thing. It's out there. There is a such thing as a correct perception. So I can correctly perceive that I'm enjoying something. I'm happy. I'm free of suffering in the moment. My point is, other than to just argue with everybody, as we follow the flow of the text, these are the kind of questions that we should be, as I enjoy my tea, we should be kind of working at the flow of this text. And these are the questions that should come up in our mind, because when and if we teach, these are the questions our students will have. So verse 14 says, hey, do a good deed, get a good result. Next verse, hey, verse 16, your good results suck. It's all suffering. and it's like whoa whoa wait a minute what do you mean so then we should be clear in our mind why that is and have a good argument for or against but then where do we go from there well what's the next logical question should be well how do we what can we do right i just told you there's good things now i've just told you those good things are actually bad things and then it's like well what the hell do i do so then what's the next verse 16 I read it? Yeah. The pain that we are writing ourselves off is all the pain that would have come to us in the future. Yeah, so he's kind of saying everything is suffering. And the suffering that you're experiencing right now, you know, let's drop the argument of, well, maybe the good things. Like, let's just take the last verse at face value and say, okay, everything is suffering. What am I going to do about it? He kind of says, well, you're kind of screwed for the suffering you're feeling right now. Right? Like, the question should be, well, what do I do? Okay, I accept everything is suffering. Even the good things suck. Which in my heart I got an issue with. But, okay, you all won the debate. I give up. Every single thing is suffering. what do I do about it well some of this the the things that suck right now you can't do anything about it what can you do something about use the Sanskrit words I actually want to want to add something to your point I I just finished my salad last piece and um i don't feel sad that my salad is done i actually feel satisfied i actually wouldn't eat more salad so i'm like okay for now i'm like so i say and it was super tasty and it was super good and i really enjoyed it and i'm good i finished my salad i'm good so i'm good for now right so just because it ended doesn't mean you're suffering yeah you're getting the time gap can i can i add something yeah i'm just wondering like going back to lydia's coffee i have found in times in my life where like coffee has been medicine but then i have had times in my life which coffee I'm grasping for coffee and there are like two very big distinctions there of like one brings me pain and the other one brings me away from pain because it's medicine and so there's like this being reasonable with our liking so it's not that I think everything is suffering but everything when you don't have discernment he uses the word discern as in to have wisdom to see how things are not coming from their own side so then in that way we have the capacity to be able to constantly be receiving medicine as long as we have our kleshas under control yeah i like that coffee is empty it can be medicine or poison you can like it or crave it or any of those things and discernment is going to be important. Right? Yeah, I'm just putting here in the chat my likes. Of course, I love coffee that's coming for me. So if you come to my house, I will for sure offer you coffee. Can I make you coffee? Can I offer you coffee? Can I buy you coffee? Because I want coffee. Because you don't want your coffee to suck. Yeah, which is what Kishla said, right? You prove that you hate coffee if you don't give it to other people, or you don't, you don't, you prove you don't like coffee if you don't give it away, which is terrible logic, but I get the point. What happens? So back to the verse, we've said everything is pain. Now the question is, well, what the hell do I do? His first part of the answer is, well, heyam duka monogatam. Some pain you're stuck with. What's the pain that we're not stuck with? And let's use the Sanskrit. What's the pain that we're not stuck with? Are you ready for class? I'll do this. Lydia, you went robot. I went robot sorry guys I'm saying Alfonso are you ready for class tomorrow we're going to use this verse so which one is which one is the time don't be shy sing it sing it I'll just the time part is the anagatam it's in the future it's the stuff in the future it's that wet cement we're we're dry now today i'm i'm dry i'm as a rock yeah but in the future the anagatam and the time gap my antidote that takes time that's what i can fix yeah cool and i was gonna ask what me and geshla use but it's the wet cement picture cool sorry alphonse and i studied before on that particular thing. So let's continue with the flow. Verse 14, good deeds bring a good result. Verse 15, the first Aya truth, hey, even those good results, they actually suck. Verse 16, well, what can we do about it? Well, we can't avoid the pain we're in now, but we can avoid the future pain. So, you know, what's the next verse going to be? It's going to be, well, how do we avoid the future pain, right? That's hopefully what he's going to talk about. So let's see if he does. Is that what he says? Just putting it in the chat. And we didn't cover this verse all that much. but let's think about it so this is the verse that's going to be like well where do we stop the future pain we're stuck with the present pain but let's look at the anagatam pain the the anagatam the pain that hasn't yet come so when we look at those five clashes of patanjali or the six steps of maitreya where do we break that so let's review that the first one is ignorance innate ignorance the second one is selfness he translated it as mistaking a self-existent me and self-existent objects third one is raga and the vesa the fourth step is that ignorance in the moment of bini vesa at the moment of having raga for that last donut, we grab it. And then there's a karma. There's a karma planted, and that spins this corduara corridor in the wheel of suffering. So in those steps, where do we break that chain? Where do we break the corduara core? The innate ignorance, the selfness, the raga devesha, the grasping in the moment, The action, the karma? Do you mean to break it temporarily or break it permanently? Both. Both for karma. I think I would have different answers for both. Alfonso, you're voting for the karma, like you stopped? the action you mean or yeah when you no longer when you no longer actually plant the seed that's going to create that so so you do that at the so you stop yourself from creating the bad seed exactly even though you might have created the subtle inertia of the of the sanskara by the negative emotion but you actually stop yourself from doing the actual deed right so you've got raga devasha you've already got some sort of impulse but you stop the impulse so you stop the action that's my take yeah who who agrees with that nobody okay let's hear some different answers then number one the ignorance ignorance that you're born with yeah isn't that the vidya or what was it called a vidya because innate ignorance that you're born with how are you going to affect that because doing all the the tapas and the practices and the study so that you can tap into the proper worldview and put all that stuff into practice so then you'll be able to work on two three four five like if you if you work on that piece having the proper worldview so that you don't have that ignorance then it'll indirectly affect all the other layers let's make the example the donut shop you walk in the donut shop, you've got this innate ignorance. That seed manifests and you think you're self-existent and the donut is self-existent. Choices one and two. The third one is that raga, I want that, that will make me happy. Fourth one is the abhinivetia, the grasping to, it's the decision to, let's call that the karma. You'd grab it, you take it, you do the action. And then that causes us to cycle. So Alfonso is saying the fifth one, we stop it at the, stop the taking of the donut for ourselves. Tracy is saying it's the karmic seeds that are in our karmic storehouse. We break it there. by not putting them there in the first place? It's like the chicken and the egg, eh? What came first? I think I go with Alfonso. it means you have already seen emptiness directly and you don't believe anymore although I don't know you could do that you could correct an action before seeing emptiness directly I understand stealing is wrong and I stop myself yes but but you do it all the time and never never again you have to have something permanent you could have a cessation of you could stop your anger I don't know maybe not I think you could stop your anger within one lifetime you might have it again in a future lifetime without seeing the direct perception of emptiness I think that's one of the results on the path of preparation isn't this verse also tapping into the future pain that hasn't come yet so wouldn't that also be applicable to like the seeds to prevent that well the answer to my question is in this verse actually that's why i brought it up so of those six steps ish which one is this verse referring to the selfness yeah so we're saying in this verse hey you want to get out of the dukkha anagatam then you need to stop the misperception of you as self-existent and the object is self-existent and that's where we attack it and keshul when he taught it he said because we we won't be able to stop ourselves like at at the point that alfonso was saying at that action unless we have a degree of wisdom from step two unless we're seeing the emptiness of the object we won't stop ourself. So he's like, you got to work on number two. I don't think there's a definitive answer. I think you could make a good case for a whole bunch of answers, but I think there's some wisdom there that we won't stop our action. If we don't have some wisdom about, about this verse, if the, if we don't stop the ignorance of seeing things as self-existent, we're probably not going to change our actions. The ignorance is too strong. It's very hard to change our actions in the moment without working at number two. So Geshe-Michael threw his hat in the number two column. And at the same time, all of us here in the call, we have some understanding of where things are coming from, right? I'd like to believe that. Can someone that has not gone through an action, even though you have an understanding, can anyone raise his hand if they haven't done an action that goes against the understanding that you have inherently? no so unless the action itself is not stopped even if you have the understanding you're still gonna be creating that same suffering the same seeds so that i mean that's the the counter argument i don't i don't want to be definite in that way but one of them is as important as the other and when Geshe was telling the story today about the donut he emphasized how he was so moved to like grab the donut and put it in the bag and walk away and and all of it and and obviously the understanding came to the point that he didn't do the action but the the needle mover the real needle mover is the fact not doing the action that is emphasized i just want to like it's a little bit of because would you would you do the action without the wisdom no right so then would you not would you not do the action even though you had the wisdom sometimes but you're the way out is to have the wisdom because not doing the action even without the wisdom isn't it's not gonna it's not gonna work ultimately um don't see there's a lot of cool comments from you there there is definitely a different i think that's what it's getting at is like this idea of i think that's highlighting the difference between two and five. Yeah, we need to, we need to mop up. We need to do number five, stop the action, but we also need to turn off the water. And that's kind of number two. Otherwise, we'll just be constantly mopping. I like that metaphor. I have to go in four minutes. Let's get to the next verse, and then I'll turn it over. um so we so again let's just kind of catch the flow good deeds are great they create good things verse 14 verse 15 but wait a minute they're all it's all suffering all right we can debate that but i'll accept that so if everything is suffering then what do we do well we're stuck with the present suffering let's do something about the future suffering. Verse 17, well, how do we do something about the future suffering? We need the wisdom to stop seeing things as self-existent, and then we need to stop doing incorrect actions. We need to stop planting those seeds. You know, it all ties together. You know, what Tracy said, what Alfonso said, what Geshe Michael said, they're all interrelated. And then verse 18, what do we got? but verse 18 is a description of all reality. And I don't know the exact contents of where he's going next, but in this verse he's he's explaining the makeup of the entire world oh okay yeah so he's this is kind of cool so he's explaining everything in the world and it's interesting which basically geshla translates as like changing things and unchanging things ourself meaning a combination of the elements and the powers he's saying everything in the universe is either for boga or apavagarta Avagarta. Apavagarta. Sorry. So they're either for bhoga or apavagarta. Right? So everything in the world. And in the... Another way to read this verse is Prakasha is light. Kriya is action. Sthiti is... He is inertia. So for those people that want to put on a yoga Vedanta Ayurvedic hat for a second, what is light, action, and inertia? the three what dosha yeah instead of saying dosha though what is that based on element sort of it is the three doshas actually yeah so what are the three doshas yeah so which one is prakasha which means light no sorry it's not the three doshas no it's not the doshas it's not going to be the doshas it's it's going to be the like the gunas it's the gunas right so prakasha light is which guna sattva sattva um kriya action is tapas not tapas close though sattva it's rajasic it's rajas it's the action and then and then tamas yeah and then stity inertia is tamas so here potentially is using very old words for the three gunas and the three gunas make up what everything right it makes up everything so he's dividing up the world and you can interpret that from different perspectives of a more of an ayurvedic yogic samkiist perspective of what are the elements of the world the three gunas and the bhutendriyas the elements of the body the sense powers and geshele kind of says the same thing these things are either changing or unchanging kriya or sthitti, right? That inertia, that tamas, he's translating that as unchanging things, kriya, the movement, the moving things, changing things, elements and the sense powers. What about them? The entire existence, everything can be used for boga or apavagarta. Meaning what? it. Consume it or use it to liberate. Yeah, we can just boga everything. We can just use all of those seeds that ripen the good seeds, all the experiences, anything that comes our way, we can just use it. Boga it. Or we can use it for freedom. Apavagarta. And if we just boga it, you know, we can relate that to the previous verses. Why do relationships fail? Why are things impermanent? Why does every good thing end? Because the seeds for that end. Why? Because we just boga the experience. We just boga the the goodness away. We just enjoyed it and it's gone. We didn't perpetuate the result that we want. We didn't create the seeds for the relationship to last. So of course it didn't last. It had to, it had to end in a breakup, right? We just boggled the whole relationship. We just enjoyed it. We didn't recreate the causes for it to continue. So everything everything in the world, the Prakash Kriyasthiti, the gunas, the changing, the unchanging things, the person, the sense powers, the elements, everything, anything that is in our world, we can just use it and it'll be gone. Or we can use all of our opportunities and experiences and use those as a tool, as a path to enlightenment, freedom, moksha. So that's what this verse is saying is like, yeah, there's a path out. Let's work at either, you know, stopping those actions or stopping seeing things as self-existent or those are going to go very hand in hand. And then what's the, how are we going to do that? Well, the opportunities are endless. They're everywhere. Every single thing in the opportunity experience moment is an opportunity just to, for boga or for apavagarta. It's a cool verse. Death or life in a way. Yeah. thanks for not bailing on us Earl are you late you got to go well my Sarah's teaching in the other room and they're it's kind of a it's a pretty it's a it's an app it's a different meditation thing and they're just kind of crazy finicky about about noise noise okay we super appreciate you earl thank you so much for your time today and your years of study and everything that you're sharing with us that was fun you're so enlightening yeah thank you so much I hope I still enjoy my meal and I'm not thinking it will end just use it for apavagarta it not boga it and we'll be good all right everybody have a wonderful evening and we'll see you tomorrow morning for yoga and meditation I teach yoga and Alfonso teaches meditation. So we'll see you guys tomorrow. Thank you. Bye.