<iframe src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YIQ1bdGuLP6yvRdhKthdbFO3KdrtNRnG/preview" width="100%" height="80" allow="autoplay"></iframe> hello ladies how are you today good how are you oh my gosh I am No, I'm really good. I'm really good. I mean, it's day five, you know, our last little homework and we need to have like a two day. Yeah. Just kind of like, I feel like I'm going to have like two days of a crock pot or something. Like, let it just cook. Maybe, maybe when we come back on Friday, I'm going to have a little bit more, you know, flavor of what's going on. Yeah, I was like, oh, we have two days off. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I need to get all my homeworks all done and passed it. And I'm like, it's all good. For for homeworks and quizzes and that kind of stuff, we have until June 15th. So while I don't recommend saving it all to the end, also don't like force yourself. And you know what I mean? Don't don't break, please. Like we get done June 1st and we have two weeks to go ahead and do homeworks and quizzes and all that kind of stuff. So how are you guys feeling about the course? I mean, in these homework sessions, we've definitely been diving into the material. But as we wait for Earl to join or whoever else is going to join, I'd love to hear just like a little feedback from you guys. How are you? Great. The course has been amazing because just the whole Sanskrit and then being able to like pronunciate and work with JC the way he is and the teachings and then the reviews we're having. It's all amazing. I love it all. Thank you. How about for you, Angelica? I'm flashed. I couldn't hear you, Angelica. I'm flashed. It's amazing, as Tracy said already. I love it. I even try to be awake at two o'clock at nighttime to stay here to join you. I think it was someone who said it in the first Satana. You do everything to join. We're so excited to have you here. Thank you for making the, you know, the sacrifice in your daily life to come be a part of this. It's funny. You say, you know, you're here at two in the morning. And then for me, it's on the flip side. Like the awesomeness starts in the morning at 5 a.m. So it's, you know, get up early to get there. So it's, I don't know, it's nice to hear kind of like everybody's different story of how they get here. But we're just really excited that you guys are participating. mean earl cannot hear us so this is a time where we can you know say anything oh he can't say anything you want about earl he's putting in his headphones i really enjoyed dissecting the verses because it seems like you know you hear it in class and then we go through stuff and then last night trying to do some of the review stuff that we were and it's all it just seems like everything else it just seems to be getting grooved in a little bit easier and easier so it's all flowing wonderful wonderful hey benji welcome hi thanks for having me how are you today oh i was just telling these these other ladies and Earl wasn't here, but I'm just kind of excited that we made it to day five. Like I'm looking forward to having a few days to kind of process what we've learned, you know, to have a moment and just kind of like let it soak in. And then kind of come back maybe with a little bit better grasp of what's going on. You know, there's just so much juicy information to digest, at least for me. Yeah, Nicole and I were talking about naps today and just how important, how tired we were cleaning out our mind streams, you know, for the last several days. Yeah, totally. A nap sounds like a win. Hi, Teresa. Hi, Alfonso. Earl, how are you? Now have the headphones in. Now you can't hear us. No, I'm good. I'm just trying to open windows and get ready. I have to... Mr. Wu asked me to teach him tonight, so I'm scrambling around to get slides ready and crap like that. Not complaining, just a little fried. I can relate to the brain not working very well anymore. this morning I had um I had Tibetan class so right after Sanskrit was over Tibetan class started and I was a mess like I couldn't read anything I was like tripping over everything I'm like my brain is not working and it's 10 o'clock in the morning like I'm done well was was word teaching that yeah it's it's a colloquial Tibetan class like we learned about like hey hello good morning how are you my name is like you know those kind of things so in in one syllable i think i made like five mistakes like i said every single thing that it's not you know like one of those days you're like yeah not not happening for me today but oh well that's that's done i just went to my local grocery store today and the woman was born in tibet wow we learned how to we learned how to say from today who knows what if i can i'll cheat and tell you but we just learned that today how to how to say like what is your motherland and your fatherland like where are you from isn't it day let me tell you um well kane is where are you from like where are you from and then and i don't know how to answer kane united states something like that i don't know we should cut all of this off whoever's editing the video homework class has not started well should we start our crew is here start start of the video now homework session take one I don't know should we just go through the verses or does somebody have a pressing question what's the vibe in the room still enjoying my salad and the salad ended yesterday and I had no suffering at all no suffering salad either so I just wanted to um let you know that I'm doing good there excellent we're on the team that just because things end it's not suffering Lydia you're on our team I don't know if I'm on your team but I have I have a request if we could do something before we get into the individual versus can we just kind of do like an overview you like again of like we started here we went here and now we're here like i i really like how you can explain the flow like where are we going and then kind of dive deeper is that cool because today i kind of felt like i was like we we've already like done so many like things like i was like wait do i still remember what at the beginning we were how far back do you want to go just um just the beginning of chapter two we don't have to go back to one but i mean i mean that's 17 verses but we can do that it's a good exercise right like i'm not trying to like deep dive in each one just kind of like where yeah how do we get to where we are um can you screen share the verses do you have that file i can totally screen share i can screen well okay while you're while you're doing that look The first verse is on Kriya Yoga. So Kriya Yoga is defined as three things, which are what? What are the three parts of Kriya Yoga? Oh boy, it's a good thing we're reviewing. This was a good call. It's Prayers to the Master, the Difficult Spiritual Practices, and, oh gosh, this one just jumped out of my brain. Study of Scripture. Yeah, Tapas, Swajaya, and Ishvara Pranidhana. And Geshe was pretty clear that he's taking Swajaya to be recitation of mantra, which is the older meaning of Swajaya. Many people translate it now as studying the scriptures, but the older meaning is mantra. So those are Kriyas, which are outer practices. Why do we do outer practices? Because we're trying, because this is the chapter on practices. So it starts with Kriya practices. So what are the Kriya, what is Kriya Yoga? Kind of like these hard spiritual practices, meaning like when we refrain from doing something for a spiritual purpose like being vegetarian or something or when we do something challenging for a spiritual purpose like getting on the yoga mat those are tapas and the kriya yoga practice has three different those three listed tapas mantras or studying the scriptures and guru yoga bowing down to the master prostrating at the feet of Ishvara however you want to take that so what does so then the next verse you know to get into that flow it's interesting there's two ways you can read the next verse Geshe says samadhi is for the purpose of dwindling away our mental afflictions. But a lot of times in the Yoga Sutras, the verse kind of carries on the flow from the previous verse. So a lot of translations say Kriya Yoga is for Samadhi and dwindling away the afflictions. So you can read it as Kriya Yoga creates Samadhi, which gets rid of the afflictions. Okay, so there's Kriya Yoga, which produces Samadhi, which gets rid of the afflictions, right? Or Kriya Yoga creates Samadhi and creates afflictions and dwindles our afflictions. I'm getting confused looks. So Kriya Yoga can be for the purpose of Samadhi, which has the purpose of getting rid of our afflictions, like a linear thing. Or Kriya Yoga can be for Samadhi, and it can also be for getting rid of the afflictions. It's a subtle difference. Angelica, you look confused. That's okay. It's not all that important. so kriya yoga let's just stick with geshla i don't see any mouse between both you don't see any difference no kriya yoga causes samadhi which causes the afflictions to get to go yes or kriya yoga causes samadhi and getting rid of the afflictions. Okay. It's because I cannot conceive samadhi without getting rid of the afflictions. Yeah, I got you. Okay. It's kind of like what you're saying, what's getting rid of the afflictions. Is it samadhi or kriya yoga? And the interesting thing about this verse is it doesn't really say get rid of the afflictions. It says to attenuate them or to weaken them. And so kriya yoga is like the first wash. It's like the clothes are really dirty. and we throw them through the wash once with kriya yoga and that's going to get most of the dirt out but this verse doesn't say you get rid of your afflictions with kriya yoga it's like you you give them a first rinse it's like a pre-rinse cycle on the washing machine so we're getting into some subtleties in the text okay so kriya yoga it's going to weaken the afflictions and then in the later verses we get to what are the what are the practices that then destroy the afflictions and then destroy the seeds for the afflictions in verses 10 and 11 cool have i have i lost everybody already at 8 12 on verse 2 all right So then we're talking about afflictions, right? So he's saying, here's what Kriya Yoga is. What's Kriya Yoga for? It's to weaken the afflictions. So what's the next verse? Well, we better figure out what the afflictions are to get rid of them. Right? And so he lists them. Avidya, Asmita, Raghadavesha, Vinivesha. And then he outlines those. And so one of the interesting discussions was, Is a vidya one of the khalishas or not? Is a vidya itself a bad thought, a negative thought? And Geshe Michael said that it's, he said it's according to, he said there's a big debate. And according to the lower schools of Buddhism, it's not a negative thought. It's a neutral thought that produces a neutral karma. My understanding is that the higher schools don't accept that. And they say a vidya ignorance does create a negative karma. So that's an interesting debate. So then he, in verse 4, says, a vidya is the field for the other four to arise, which is kind of taking this, it seems like Patanjali agrees that, well, I don't know, because he's saying it's one of the five kleshas. So he's saying ignorance is the field that the other four grow out of, right? It's like the field that the plants grow out of. It's the field that the afflictions grow out of. And so if you take away the field, the soil, you can't have the afflictions. So the other four grow out of the field of ignorance. And those can be in one of four states. They can be dormant. They can be, what does he say in the translation? Dormant, dwindling, interrupted, or flourishing. So there's four different ways that our afflictions can be. They can be dormant. The seeds haven't ripened. They can be dwindling because we're meditating on the opposite. Pratipaksha Bhavanan. Like, I don't want to do my yoga practice, so I meditate on tapas. So I counteract the laziness by meditating on the opposite, and that dwindles the affliction. they can be interrupted. I can't have anger at the same time as I have desire. My anger is interrupted because I have desire. And then my desire will be interrupted by anger. So when I have desire, anger is interrupted. And it's actually dormant. So the reason for being dormant matters. okay so what can our afflictions be they can be dormant and then an object ice cream will arise and now my raga my desire for that object has a object to arise with okay and then because i have desire my anger is interrupted it can also be interrupted dependent on the object like i can't be angry at lydia because right now i'm angry at theresa and then later i'll be angry at lydia so my anger is interrupted either because of a different emotion or a different object and then the fourth one is flourishing i'm just it's just describing full-on i'm pissed off my anger is for the the affliction is flourishing cool so then each of the following next verses is describing those afflictions the kleshas avidya asmita ragadavisha vinivesha and this is where geshela kind of combine the two systems of Maitreya's six steps with Patanjali's five afflictions. Do we feel the need to go into those or can I skip those? We're probably, it's going to be a long review if we go over those. We're good? All right. avidya, ignorance, asmitah, selfness, believing in a self-existent me and things, earl and objects, pens. When I believe in a self-existent ice cream, I can have raga, desire for it. If I believe in a self-existent angry boss, I can have divaysha, pushing it away. And then a bini-vesha, I guess described as, bini veysha often is translated as grasping at death it's grasping to a self at death kishla talks about it in the terms of grasping at that moment of in the donut shop fuck it i'm gonna take the donut screw everybody else it's that grasping in the moment that creates the karma which keeps us spinning in the wheel of samsara so then we get to verse 10 cutting off their flow what's the their the mental afflictions yeah the questions right requires elimination of very subtle problems what's the subtle problems seeing things as self-existent in a subtle way so now we're this is the second wash of the dirty clothes now we're we eliminate the gross misconceptions this verse is describing the subtle misconceptions as the commentators talk about it and then what's the next verse it says the way the mind turns things around is eliminated by deep meditation so then finally what's the last rinse cycle it's a it's samadhi it's like really deep meditation is is the thing that can lead us to even destroying the seeds of those negative emotions so then we get into a discussion from there he gets into so we've described the the negative emotions we've described how to get rid of them and then he gets into a discussion on karma he talks about the karma shayoh the root of where karma is stored so yeah so it's kind of like continuing this idea of like how do we how do we what is this thing that we are doing this last rinse on it's the karmic seeds something like that and if we don't get rid of that root if we don't so the next verse says if we don't get rid of that ignorance that root that field the kshetram that the plants what will happen we're going to experience our karma we're going to experience jati ayur boga type of birth length of life occurrences within that life geshla translates it as we'll experience the results of karma in this life or the life to come they'll be seen or not seen so then he continues in verse 14 on on karma good experiences come from good seeds bad experiences come from bad seeds verse 15 says like we talked about yesterday verse 14 is like there's good results that come from good seeds and bad results that come from bad seeds verse 15 says by the way even those good results are suffering and that was the salad discussion because it ends right so we're talking about even a good experience a good samsaric result is still suffering it's still samsara it's still infected with with suffering because of the three types of suffering suffering of suffering suffering of change and all pervasive suffering why is the salad suffering because it's impermanent and because it's going to end and you will end those samsara is permeated by those three types of suffering so it's it's giving this idea of the goal of yoga isn't just to create plata pleasure when you this is saying hey look everything is suffering it's describing the first noble truth we need to get out of this state we need to get out don't think the idea is just to create punya that's going to create flada right it's not just to avoid apunya and paritapa yeah paritapa it's like get out those good things that you're enjoying they're going to end don't get stuck there keep going and then verse 16 says okay yeah you've convinced me let's get rid of pain totally and potanjad is saying well you can't get rid of the pain you're experiencing in the moment what kind of pain can you get rid of anagatam future pain you're kind of stuck with the pain in the moment don't don't lose too much sleep over the the crap that's arising right now You know, worry about your reaction to the crap that's arising now, so that you're not planting seeds to experience more crap in the future. Because that's the pain that we can avoid. The anagatam pain, the pain that is to come if we were to plant more bad seeds. So then how do we do that? How do we avoid the pain that's to come? Verse 17 says, it's this mistaken view of seeing myself as self-existent and seeing my world as self-existent. That's the thing that we have to eliminate. That's the cause, the coming together, the etu, the cause of the sun yoga, which is like a root of sun yoga, the coming together. things coming together. What's coming together? The drashtir and the drushya yoho. Drushya yo. The seer and what it sees. The subject and object, thinking I exist self-existently, and thinking that the object exists self-existently. Those two things come together and are the cause of me making the mistake that's going to create my dukkha anagatam, my future suffering I'm gonna see the donut as self-existent and because I have a binivation I'm gonna grab it because I don't have wisdom I'm not gonna give it away the seer, me and the scene, the self-existent donut those two things, samyogo and that hetu causes dukkha anugatam future suffering. Moving right along at warp speed here. And so then the last verse we talked about yesterday was a description of the entire all of reality. So it's saying, how is future suffering escaped in verse 17 we have to get beyond seeing things as me and objects as self-existent and then in the next verse it's saying again it's kind of like how do we do that and it's a description of all of reality we talked about it being the three gunas prakasha kriya shtiti prakasha meaning light meaning which of the gunas kriya meaning action meaning which guna rajas yeah and then shtiti meaning tamas so that's a one way to describe all of reality and then it talks about the buddendriyas the sense powers and the the bhuta the elements and the indriyas the sense powers and it's different you know kind of ancient ways of describing the world what's the world made up of it's made up of the gunas and the elements and the sense powers me and me atman kishla translated as changing things kriya and unchanging things shilam and the elements and the sense powers what is everything in reality changing things and unchanging things sense powers me the elements that's everything why are we talking about everything because we can use everything for enlightenment for enlightenment apavagarta for reaching the final state kaivalya is the word they use in the yoga sutras or moksha or we can just burn up our good karma boga every instant in every aspect of reality we can do those things we can use whatever's arising to liberate us or we can just good seeds ripen and that see those seeds are gone just burn them up and that's what that's why every good thing ends because we don't create the seeds to replicate them to continue of them why do relationship sense because we boga instead of apavagarta why does the phone break because we boga boga'd our phone karma instead of apavagarta'd our phone karma I hope that wasn't too fast. There's a lot to go into depth, and all of those takes a long time. Did that suffice, Lydia? For me, it's awesome. I'm not, I mean, of course, there's so much more to go into, but I feel like I got the, I got, you know, like on Netflix, the recap. Yeah. Thank you very much. I remember it now. So then looking at verse 19, which was the first one he talked about today, it's again, it's another, it's kind of like a different way of breaking down all of reality, the two realities. So now we're again, we could talk about all of reality being composed of the gunas or changing and unchanging things. Or we could talk of all of reality being related to the two realities. So what are the, what's the description of the two realities here? It's vishesha, avishesha, linga, and matralinga. okay so what was vishesha and avishesha deceptive and ultimate that is the two truths but it's not we're not quite there yet it well it is actually it's vishetian and avishetia is differentiated and undifferentiated which is what led into the talk of the two truths so can you connect those it's a little tricky how is differentiated and undifferentiated related to the two truths the deceptive reality are the things which can trick you they can fool you and the ultimate reality is the world looks like how do you mean it's what the world looks like where things are coming from ultimate reality let's let's visit that um so i think that's close i think you're on the right track gashla first talked about vishesha and avishesha as differentiated and undifferentiated he said hey i'm not benji we're different we're differentiated if i write if i put my hand in the air his hand doesn't automatically go in the air him and i are different there's a difference between us we are obviously we are vishasha but we're also avishasha in the sense that we're both human we both like to go to yoga sutra class you know we could think of a whole bunch of commonalities so he kind of left it at that at first and he moved on to linga and and a linga so it was linga signs and a linga no signs Linga is the indicator, isn't it? Yeah, it's an indicator or a sign. He translated it as sign. But it's the same thing. He said that the linga is the regular reality. Like me being confused when I'm walking around every day. That's the linga. And the a-linga is the beyond. It's the realizing that the parts that I see don't make a thing. It's not the pen telling me I'm a pen, I'm a pen, I'm a pen. I realize, oh, it's a pen this way. Give me an example of a linga. Smoke. Yeah, that's a great scriptural example. it's slightly different because it's a sign that there's fire right silver color shape yeah um today gishla talked about it in a slightly different sense where he said the linga is a thing it's a part it's a pen it's a it's a color and a shape it's a sign or a or like a um it sometimes refluxes a mark but it means like it's the things that we put together and label as a thing are those the parts yeah the parts of a pen yep you could i mean it'd be an interesting question is it also a pen let's just say it's the parts of a pen right and yeah dulcie said we can interpret these signs differently so it's like these parts that the mind takes and puts together and gives a label is the example the car you could use that as an example like as the parts of a car how about just the parts of a thing like parts of an object versus because you can't call it you can't label it a car or a pen or a person until there's something that puts it together the parts don't have that label well it's the label that puts them together right right after you see the parts right after you take in the experience of the parts the mind puts together with the seed that you have in your mind puts together yeah i'm all right with that it's a big rabbit hole to go down that road but yeah sure we see parts colors and shapes and then the mind puts an image onto those parts i'm more or less okay with that for the sake of this conversation especially so what's a linga then no sign yeah so give me an example of that like when you when you see i mean you you still see the he gave an example of like the pot right like you see the pot but you realize that the pot is coming from you you realize that the signs together like the silver round straight that doesn't make the pot i have an example like maybe you're teaching a yoga class and the audio is not really acting right and things are kind of weird for example for example and then you're like oh like maybe it's the microphone you know and you realize like no it's not the microphone there's definitely of things that i said and did that created a situation in my life that made it difficult for me to communicate to the people i want to communicate to and i feel like that's like in that moment you have the choice to look at the signs or you have to look at beyond the signs the uh the signs linga means like linga mantra means only signs it means like the eye sees colors and shapes and we put these pieces together into a and create a story and that story is based on karma a linga is beyond signs it means there's no parts that we're putting together there's an absence of those parts that we're putting together and creating a story about so it's referring to the direct perception of emptiness and the he also said it's the which is the realization that those signs don't make the story from their own side so you could talk about alinga being the direct perception of emptiness or the wisdom that comes from that where we realize kind of what benji was saying that the the signs don't create the story in a self-existent way the way that those signs are combined into a story is based on on our seeds and so then when we come out of that experience that direct perception of emptiness he differentiated that experience into two parts but he also then got into the two truths which is you know back to that first bit about vishesha navishesha of like um differentiating things and not differentiating things direct perception of emptiness ultimate reality we can't differentiate subject and object and then what happens is we get spit out of that experience and suddenly we're differentiating subject and object again so the second one is an absence first one oh alenga yes yeah i think so okay it's an absence of science i i i would agree with that and i'm not a hundred percent confident in that but uh what do you mean by absence of science Teresa? Well, I thought it had to do with when you're looking for something and like when you're looking for something and you don't get that thing you're looking, you realize that there is an absence of the thing you were looking for. If it was that. You don't have the signs anymore and you see that it's not there as you thought it was. So by absence, we mean almost like negation of signs? That's what I mean, yeah. What? I didn't hear. I said, what you're saying is that it's a negation of the signs. meaning that the signs are being interpreted in a way that their qualities or their interpretation that the eyes make are like surface level. So looking beyond the surface level of the sign to see the emptiness of it. What would be the sign of the direct perception of emptiness? like the signal or the signs, the linga of the direct perception of emptiness. Like when there's smoke, there's fire. When there's parts of a pen, there's a pen. You can't really say that about the direct perception of emptiness. It's a linga. Alfonso? Yeah, that's what I was, that's what I was, that's where I was heading actually. about that actually a linga is the ultimate reality. So it's the perception of emptiness. Yeah. I'm not sure that they're one end the same, but I think it's more like there is no linga in the direct perception of emptiness. It is a linga. It's the absence of everything. Basically the absence of all things. It's the perception of the lack of a self-existent nature to things. So is this verse specifically talking about the direct perception of emptiness in terms of the linga versus what Angelica was saying about deceptive and ultimate reality? I was just curious, just defining that, because I thought that was a pretty... I don't know. I'm not sure. I just was, you know, I'm deferring. Yeah, well, I mean, it's a good question because, and I would say no, because I think the next verse is describing that. You say no to what? That this verse isn't describing the direct perception of emptiness. Would you say that it's describing the difference between ultimate reality and deceptive reality in terms of perception? I mean, that's where Geshe-la went with it when he's talking about, he's talking about vishesha and avishesha. Like, what is it that we're distinguishing and not able to distinguish? In the direct perception of emptiness, we can't distinguish subject and object. And on the homework question, we'll see, like, we pop out of that experience, and then can we describe it? no it's indescribable why is that experience indescribable because it doesn't have signs that's a really great answer yeah that's cool how are you going to describe something that doesn't have signs to describe it right like the gakcha um kind of no i don't know but i think that's the object you deny i mean you can't you can't sorry go ahead the gakcha is the object you deny which you're calling something a sign which isn't really the way it is and so therefore what is whatever the opposite of that is i guess you know not to confuse things but like it's a lack of signs right right right exactly and so so it's not like the gacha it's actually the lack of the gacha right so like yeah so why can't you describe the direct perception of emptiness because there's no self and no object to describe there's no sign of itself or an object yeah you're not able to it's beyond con it's beyond um being able to distinguish a subject and an object if you were to which means it's beyond words so how are you going to describe something that's beyond words beyond subject and object are you going to describe something that's beyond words with words it's just not going to work so you so you use metaphor right it's like water poured into water the dao that is seen is not the dao the it's like a diamond right and just let's say it's not describable means you you can't describe it in a way that someone is gonna oh yeah okay i know what you mean you know like if i describe a cup to someone they can go pick up the cup right away lydia sorry you guys i can't raise my hand and share screen at the same time everyone else has been very educated to raise their hand so here's my little hand raise um I I liked how he said it can be described but it won't get you there like you can't like verbally explain it to someone else and I don't know I'll just throw this tidbit out there I feel like sometimes that happens to me like in yoga right a teacher can explain a yoga pose to you they can tell you what to do but that doesn't mean that you can do it so i you know you can experience it you can have words and say this happened this is how it is this is you know what i felt or saw or what have you but just because they explain it to me doesn't mean that i'm going to have that perception yeah it's a nice definition of indescribable because because we do try to describe it maybe you could use some languaging like conceptual versus non-conceptual for yeah The problem is Jetson Kappa gives a crazy definition of conceptual. So it gets really tricky to use that word. Jetson Kappa says, he says conceptual means self-existent. So the direct perception of emptiness is non-conceptual because you're having the first perception ever of something as not self-existent directly. And that's what he means by, he's like, that's what conceptual means. That's what non-conceptual means. Conceptual means seeing something as self-existent. Non-conceptual, not seeing something as self-existent. And we misuse that word all the time. So then somebody comes out of that experience, and then what reality are they in? In the original one they were in before. Called which? Of the two realities, which one's that? Deceptive. Yeah. So they're in, which means what? What was his metaphor that he went on about from the Sivananda ashram where Anjali and I got to hang out? The pink glasses. Yeah. Meaning what? Meaning that you're using glasses that are always giving you the wrong answer. yeah keep keep going with that like what's what's different at that point after coming that out out of that experience from before like you still have the pink glasses on and you're like oh my gosh the whole world's pink but you know you have the glasses on you've realized you're like oh if I can take the glasses off I won't see pink anymore and you have no doubt and you you know are convinced. Now you just have to figure out how to get those pink glasses off. Right. So you, you know, you're wrong, right? So in deceptive reality, you know, you're wrong. You're certain. I know I am wrong. I am no longer deceived. Right? Yeah, exactly. So it's not deceptive reality because you're no longer deceived. That was incorrect. What I said was incorrect. When you come out of the direct perception of emptiness, you still see things not coming from you, but you don't take them to be that way any longer. So that's not the same world. You're not deceived by deceptive reality. So you don't see things as self-existent? No, you do. You do. So you are deceived. You are deceived, but you don't take them to be that way. And that's why you can't prohibituate further karma. So you're not deceived. This is a great debate, Earl. Teresa? Now, I was going to say that after that, after I met the question of seeds of illusion, and he referred to this saying that you have your pink glasses on always since the beginning and that with you already have them on to put your sunglasses on he said like something like that he said you have to have your pink sunglasses on to put your sunglasses on i was like what he's like well he was saying that maybe he was saying you've always had them, but now you realize that they're on. I don't know. I'm not quite sure. But my point is, when you come out of the direct perception of emptiness, you come out into deceptive reality. But you know with certainty that the way things appear and the way they exist aren't matching right you know that you're wrong so why why is it deceptive Teresa maybe the same example as depression because you can't make new karma instantly and ripen at the moment you have to be patient and you're still working with your old seeds you definitely are but are you depressed or not lydia yeah you you learn about emptiness you you you have that experience but it takes time he said he referred to it as like the second time gap like you still get angry at your husband but you can distinguish like okay but i'm acting crazy. Like, you know, so I think you're in deceptive reality, things are still coming at you, or they look like they're coming at you, but you distinguish that that's not the way they really are. And I was going to say, it's because you had the direct perception, like right now, intellectually, all of us here are like, oh, yeah, things are, you know, coming from me. But we're not able to apply that to our, you know, every action every day all the time. so it just it takes time to habituate it which is the next step yeah so are you deceived or not i think no you're not deceived you're still living in deceptive reality but you're not going to fall for the trick what does deceptive reality mean you see things coming at you so you are deceived no you're not because because because they aren't coming at you yeah yeah yeah alfonso what did you say that you know you are deceived yeah all the difference yeah you are deceived you're still got you're still seeing things rose deceptive reality means it's a truth it's the that which is perceived and deceives a deceived state of mind and that's why someone won 300 bucks today because the question is you have to ask for who it's for a person that has a deceived state of mind deceptive reality is deceptive for who someone with a deceived state of mind and that's what we are after that experience we still have those glasses on deceptive means things appear one way but exist another it doesn't mean yeah but we understand that so we're not deceived right what it means is we're being tricked we know we're being tricked but we're still being tricked so we are in we are being deceived by deceptive reality we are being deceived We just know it. And we know how to get rid of that. We know how to take the glasses off. And then like Lydia said, it's going to take some time. But are we deceived? Yeah, absolutely. Teresa? Can you think it as being two different seeds? Thinking, for example, with anger. I can be angry and it's like a feeling seed. But I still know I don't have to be angry and that things are not coming from me. It's a different kind of seed. They can be together because they are different seeds. The anger is one seed and what's the other seed? You can be angry and thinking things exist from their own side. or you can be angry and think that, know that things are not coming from your own side. Yeah. At the same time, you can be deceived, but you already know that things don't exist the way. I think that's really interesting because it gets to whether ignorance is a mental affliction or if it's a discrete thought. Can we have one thought of ignorance and one thought of the object that we're ignorant about are those two things or one thing like does ignorant function as an ever-present mental function like discrimination feeling or is it attached to the experience or is there two parts to that experience at the same time i was thinking about that today um my friends i have to sign off please continue without me I enjoy these satsangs very much I look forward to doing it again in a couple days with y'all but I gotta jump off Thank you Earl, I vote for the two two separate things I vote for that for now Thank you so much Earl have a wonderful evening Thank you I need to leave too because I have to cook if not nobody's going to eat at my house um well we only have two minutes if they're not there i i lead to if earl's not here everyone abandons ship i see how you are okay have a nice night terry have a thank you a wonderful meal with your family um i was gonna say we we have two minutes so if anybody wanted to make a last you know comment we don't have to necessarily like continue to deep dive into material but if anyone wanted to share anything before we close today no silence oh thank you benji alfonso you too man i i ended i i didn't cry during the meditation I did it was really good it was really good nice thank you that was my intention all the way well everyone have a wonderful two days off to cook this material I hope you get lots of you know rest and just kind of like to soak it in and we'll see you guys on Friday for asana class have asana with tanya and then meditation with chrissy don't forget to send in your um kalesha killer stories on instagram or post anything you know that's going on in your head at hashtag ysi yoga sutra a little commercial all right bye everyone have a wonderful evening thanks lydia Thank you. I really enjoyed this morning. Thanks. That was great. Oh, thank you so much. It was fun. Bye. Bye.